Transcription
00:00:06 Introduction
Welcome. You're listening to Links at Bain and Gray, a catalogue of podcasts centred on all things Business Support in the workplace. Our aim is to bring you interesting and relevant content that will keep you up-to-date and thriving in your role.
00:00:24 Emily
Good morning and welcome to Links presents. This morning, I am so excited to welcome our guest, as part of the Links presents portfolio.
We've got the fabulous Camilla McCusker, who I've known for gosh, nearly 20 years.
Who has got an incredible career to date and I don't think she's even anywhere peaking yet in her career. Camilla's got an incredible background, spanning across a variety of industries, from hospitality through to royalty, corporate communications, search and selection. And now, happily settled at one of the world's largest global foundations.
Welcome, Camilla.
00:01:11 Camilla
Hello Emily. Thanks for having me today.
00:01:13 Emily
Oh, it's a real pleasure, Camilla.
00:01:16 Emily
Gosh, I don't know where to start with you, Camilla. There's so much to talk about.
00:01:20 Camilla
I know I have to say when you've just read out the list of industries I thought, “Oh my God, that sounds like I job hop like crazy.
00:01:26 Emily
Absolutely not. I think you've just been, I would say, poached and lured in many of your roles.
Lets start with your current role because it's so interesting. Could you just tell us - In your words, rather than mine - what you actually do now? Where you work and what you do?
00:01:44 Camilla
Absolutely. So I work for a large global foundation and I'm the director of the President's office there, were the second largest global foundation in the world and we support many different individuals and networks, through grants that that we provide across all sorts of human rights.
00:02:13 Emily
Oh wow. Gosh, that sounds quite niche in terms of who you're working for. Does this role involve travelling? Are you based in London?
00:02:24 Camilla
I'm based London. It does involve travelling, which has actually been quite exciting because my last travel role was about 15 years ago, and that was a two year travel EA role, which we can certainly talk about later in the podcast. But, it has been really exciting and, as I said, it was 15 years ago that I was travelling a lot, mainly to New York and across the States. Being back in New York 15 years later as a completely different person, has actually been really exciting.
00:02:57 Emily
I'm sure, and actually like you said, different. I know now that you're a mother of two. My experience of New York, when I went only about sort of seven years ago, I thought this is the this is the place to live in your 20s, but going back in your 40s I thought “Oh my God I'm exhausted get me home!”
00:03:14 Camilla
Absolutely. People keep saying to me. “Oh, is it fabulous dinners?” “Are you just going shopping after work?” I say “no, I go back to the hotel, and I order their amazing cheesecake.”
00:03:24 Emily
Yeah – and sit in bed!
00:03:25 Camilla
And just sit in bed.
00:03:29 Emily
So, your role at the moment - you're sort of under playing it - but you are the Director of the President's Office, which is an extraordinary achievement of where you've come from. How did you start your career as a PA, Camilla? Talk me through your studies.
00:03:46 Camilla
Absolutely. So I studied Middle Eastern history and politics at university and I had a glitch actually, when I came to graduate in a long story. But essentially, I'd missed one of my final exams because a member of my family had been taken into hospital and I was told “Oh, it's fine, you can graduate, you've got enough points.” and then I went to collect my graduation certificate and they said “Oh, actually, no, you don't. You're going to have to retake that exam in a year.”
And so, I found myself not having graduated but knowing I would in a year. And most 22 year olds have to suddenly find a job. And a friend of mine had said her husband was looking for an EA for a maternity contract, which was going to be a year, and I thought “The stars have aligned, and I will go and do this for a year”. I don't really know what an EA is, I don’t know what this job is, and I literally just fell into it that easily.
And I just loved it.
00:04:48 Emily
Did you go back and do your exam?
00:04:50 Camilla
I did! It was so bizarre. I had to take a week off of holiday to cram and study, and then I took the exam at the end of that week and graduated.
00:05:04 Emily
Oh wonderful. And never looked back?
00:05:04 Camilla
Never looked back. It was such a weird experience. But that first role was in hospitality. That was in a five star, boutique hotel in London. So, I was very privileged and lucky that my first EA role was sort of looking after the general manager, who was essentially the CEO of that hotel. So it was a huge role that I hadn’t appreciated that I was actually stepping into.
00:05:29 Emily
Right time, right place. I think also hospitality, there's no better training. You literally learnt in the best environment to set you up.
00:05:37 Camilla
Absolutely. And then I moved from there to the Dorchester Hotel, which was again, what a place to learn everything. And, at the time, I definitely soaked everything in that I possibly could. The gentleman that I was EA to, was called the Resident Manager. He actually looked after everything apart from the food and beverage within the Dorchester, and he said to me when I started you can either be a typist, really happy with that. We've got lots of correspondence that needs to be dealt with. Or you can come and shadow me and just watch everything I do. And so I picked the latter, and just soaked in as much as I could from him, and I have to say, the 20 years later, I do still credit him with the really core skills that I learned.
00:06:32 Emily
How amazing to have been put to work for somebody who was so mentoring and so inspirational and could obviously recognise your ambition, and your interest and curiosity in the role, because like you said, you could easily have gone down another path, which wouldn't have let you grow or understand the business or become so much than Typists. I don't think they exist anymore? So that's amazing. I was actually going to say, who do you think sort of been sort of a huge inspiration? Who do you credit as helping you in your career? That certainly sounds like somebody that has.
00:07:09 Camilla
Definitely. There have been many, particularly women. I think I've always felt very grateful to women who are, probably, at least 10/15/20 years older than me. I've always looked to, I guess seek out mentors, but where people are there and willing to offer their support. I've always absolutely sort of business-
00:07:35 Emily
Grabbed and held on to. Well, that's great advice for our listeners. You’ve got to be proactive in that, haven't you? You've got to go after learning of people or asking people to lead you in the right direction, if you're just going to sit back and just do the day-to-day, you're not going to get very far in your role.
00:07:51 Camilla
No, no.
00:07:53 Emily
You've talked about how you found your first PA role. Moving away from hospitality, what for you has been the most challenging PA role in your career today and why?
00:08:09 Camilla
The most challenging has been, I think the travel EA role that I did, and that was a two year role. Where for all intents and purposes, I gave up my entire life, willingly and happily, to go and travel with this particular person and every day was different. We were in different cities, depending on where the mood took us, there was a large business element to it. So it wasn't frivolous. There were lots of moving parts at all times and it was challenging because up until that point, I'd been in hospitality and then I'd worked for an Ambassador in London. So, I guess in hospitality, things are corporate and they're a business related items, but it's much more varied on a day-to-day basis, whereas this was really tracking contracts, as well as everything else that you were doing on a day-to-day basis, so I had to present myself very quickly as a business assistant and that was challenging because it's something I hadn't done before I guess.
00:09:33 Camilla
Was 20.
00:09:35 Camilla
Seven. Probably at.
00:09:35 Camilla
Time and it was a it was a.
00:09:36 Emily
Mm.
00:09:39 Camilla
Which I had to bring myself as Camilla.
00:09:42 Camilla
Well as.
00:09:43 Camilla
The professional person, so I really, really had to give my entire self to the role.
00:09:50 Camilla
If makes.
00:09:50 Emily
Was that a 24/7 role?
00:09:52 Camilla
Was 24/7 plus.
00:10:00 Emily
Did you? Did you feel because these roles are unusual and and they're always very attractive, especially to our, I'd say our our younger PA community, people say oh, the travelling a world sounds so glamorous etcetera. But actually the reality.
00:10:14 Emily
It is incredibly hard work, isn't it? You. There's no off switch.
00:10:17 Camilla
No, there isn't, and I think you know again, I used to have people, you know, friends. Oh my goodness, you've just been here and there and and you know, all these glamorous places. And I don't think I don't think I even.
00:10:29 Camilla
I don't think I saw anything. I remember I had been to New York, I think 9 times.
00:10:34 Camilla
And had never seen.
00:10:36 Camilla
In anything of New York because you bit land, you'd get into a car, you'd go to a hotel, you'd then go to lots of meetings. I also, with this particular role, had to literally cover through the evening. So I would be going and attending dinner.
00:10:51 Camilla
Again, sounds. Yeah. I went to some lovely restaurants participating in dinner around the table. And as I said.
00:10:52 Emily
What?
00:10:53 Emily
In incidents that are.
00:10:56 Camilla
And you know that, of course has some lovely food and went to some lovely restaurants, but I was never there on my own. Right. You know, you're there in a in A and you're on show.
00:11:04 Emily
You're on show. Absolutely, yeah.
00:11:05 Camilla
OK. And then you know, you'd go back and you'd debrief and and probably get into bed at about?
00:11:11 Camilla
I don't know 10:30 eleven o'clock. Having started your day at 6:00 AM.
00:11:15 Emily
And then doing it all again the next day. Yeah. No. Exhausting. Yeah.
00:11:17 Camilla
Then I'm doing all again, absolutely.
00:11:21 Camilla
But definitely, but you know, for the right person, I I have never regretted doing that role. It it, I learned a lot about myself as as, as an individual about what I want in life. What I don't want in life and you know.
00:11:37 Emily
And then to tell me where did that take you after that? Because I mean two years is a long time to, to, to like you say, give up your life to be travelling a lot at someone's back and cool where does where, where does that take you after that so after that?
00:11:37
Was.
00:11:44
Yep.
00:11:51 Camilla
I did take.
00:11:53 Camilla
I I had suffered burnout. I think it would be wrong for me not to say that I had.
00:11:58 Camilla
And I took about 3 months off. I had enough, you know, enough savings that I took and it was over the summer.
00:12:05 Camilla
You probably just friend. I answer. Lots of friends were telling 30 and I and I just took the sum and I just really thought I've whatever happens next. I need to make sure it's the right thing for me and actually talking about mentors. One of my most fabulous mentors.
00:12:22 Camilla
Who I'd actually met along the way during that that two year role.
00:12:26 Camilla
Contacted me and said I've heard you've left, you know said person and and there is a role that's come up and I just think you'd be perfect for it. This gentleman wants business assistant and EA but somebody.
00:12:39 Emily
Who can do more?
00:12:41 Camilla
And and it was just, you know, that sort of introduction. I went to meet him and work for him for four years and I'm actually now.
00:12:48 Camilla
Now, 10 years later, having left that role back with him again in this current role, so you know these things, I think in life, what I'm trying to say.
00:12:52 Emily
Yeah.
00:12:56 Camilla
That don't ever.
00:13:00 Camilla
Close doors, but then don't ever be sort of closed minded on things because that role that I.
00:13:04 Camilla
On to.
00:13:05 Camilla
Was a.
00:13:06 Camilla
Corporate role it was, and I did that for four years and I'd always.
00:13:09 Emily
I think that's I think that's when our paths crossed.
00:13:11 Camilla
I think it was.
00:13:12 Camilla
It was.
00:13:13 Emily
And and actually, I think what's really interesting here, Camilla, obviously I meet lots and lots of EAS. Pas chief of staff, but there seems to always be.
00:13:22 Emily
Sort of at the very senior level, your paths will cross with somebody who you disconnected with who you work.
00:13:28 Emily
But perhaps.
00:13:29 Emily
You might veer away, but then you will come back, which is? I know what you've done. You know everyone involves and changes and changes roles and companies etc.
00:13:32
What you've done?
00:13:37 Emily
And I think that's a real theme here. Don't underestimate people that will come across your pathway, even from a very.
00:13:42 Camilla
Yeah.
00:13:43 Emily
Early age because you never know where, where, where you're being 20 years time and then you might need their advice or they might recommend you to somebody else. So I think that's a really.
00:13:45 Camilla
You never know.
00:13:48 Camilla
Yeah.
00:13:51 Emily
Of advice for our listeners.
00:13:52 Camilla
And also don't think that you're you know beneath that not that not that you're beneath it, but that you're, you know, you're too junior to have a mentor or oh, who am I to network it? Absolutely. And then you don't have to network in a sort.
00:14:00
Yeah.
00:14:05 Camilla
You know.
00:14:07 Camilla
Overly obvious way, but you know, nurture the relationships that you you make with people along the way. Because I think and it's something I I'm really mindful to do as I've.
00:14:18 Camilla
Progressed through my career and it's not again. It's not an ego thing that I want to give my advice to people, but the people who mentored me throughout my career were so important that it's really important for me to try and give whatever Nuggets of gold that they gave to me to pass those on to the next generation as well. So.
00:14:37 Emily
And I'm sure you're doing that in your current position at the moment as well. So So what, what in your, I mean your roles, you've obviously evolved a lot to where you are now, but fundamentally the principles stay the same.
00:14:50 Emily
So what? What?
00:14:53 Emily
What do you like most about being APA?
00:14:57 Camilla
So I think the.
00:14:58 Camilla
The thing I've enjoyed the most about being APA and it translates absolutely to what I do now is being a problem solver and in the role I have now, it's just elevated to being.
00:15:09 Camilla
A high level.
00:15:10 Camilla
Solver. Whereas I think when I was in EA was more around sort of the daily.
00:15:15 Camilla
You know, problems that were flying at you.
00:15:18 Camilla
And that every day is different. I mean, I've had a couple of roles where days, you know, sort of were quite similar. But you know, if you get a really good.
00:15:28 Camilla
Role the days are just glorious because you just don't know what's going.
00:15:33 Camilla
Come. Yeah.
00:15:33 Emily
I'm not going to be throwing at you. Absolutely. So what advice would you give to the sort of the younger PA who's starting out?
00:15:43 Emily
In their career, what? What would if you had to give some some crucial advice? What?
00:15:46 Emily
It be, I would say.
00:15:50 Camilla
As as you started off with my massive array of industry hopping, do not get sidelined into one particular industry.
00:16:00 Camilla
We definitely look at everything and anything that sounds interesting you. I always thought I would never work in a corporate environment. I would never be a corporate EA. And actually that was one of the best roles I had for four years.
00:16:12 Camilla
Really focus on the type of company that you want to work.
00:16:17 Camilla
You know, whether that's a mission based company, you know the purpose around what they do, whether that matters to you, whether it doesn't kind of really try and understand the the environment that you want to be in as opposed to.
00:16:30 Camilla
People can get hung up on status and titles and you know where does our sector of sector? Absolutely, totally. My advice would just be be as open as you can. And yeah, and really seek out well. Listen, listen. Yeah, absolutely.
00:16:41 Emily
And research? Absolutely. Yeah, I agree with that completely. So what all sort of on the back of that following on then what 3 attributes do you think make a really good assistant?
00:16:53 Camilla
I think emotional intelligence is really important and I know that's a really hard one to test for and.
00:16:58 Camilla
That's right. But I, but I do think you know, especially in an interview in an interview process, just demonstrating that you're able to listen and portray yourself in a in a way that's empathetic and.
00:17:11 Camilla
Understanding.
00:17:12 Camilla
That's definitely one.
00:17:14 Camilla
Being a multitasker, I mean, I know that's, you know, again really obvious. But you you've got to be able to.
00:17:20 Camilla
Flexible.
00:17:21 Camilla
Move from some you know something to another and not having.
00:17:21
Mm.
00:17:24 Camilla
Sort of.
00:17:25 Camilla
That rigid nature that you can't.
00:17:29 Camilla
Adapt.
00:17:31 Emily
I'm just thinking of something really simple when you say that which is, you know, some some Ea's do really complex travel and diary management.
00:17:40 Emily
And just thinking about them, you know, when a schedule changes really and it's almost like, I mean, I'd be useless. I would be like, what's that? Took me 3 hours to sort that.
00:17:45
Yeah, absolutely, boss.
00:17:50 Camilla
Exactly, Dave. Absolutely. And we, we actually, it's funny you say that we had that yesterday on one of the EA on my.
00:17:51
Out and now I've got to do it all again.
00:17:58 Camilla
She just, you know, she just.
00:17:59
Yes.
00:18:00 Camilla
Took it in her stride.
00:18:02 Camilla
Because things just change all the time.
00:18:03 Emily
Yeah.
00:18:05 Camilla
And and and I think what's it's it's a similar vein, but I think being being able to be nimble. I think you have to be able to.
00:18:14 Camilla
To just.
00:18:15 Camilla
I mean.
00:18:16 Camilla
Roll with the punches. It's a horrible term, but you know you just on any given day, you don't know what's coming, and it could be a lovely day where, you know, things go to plan and it could be a day where absolutely nothing goes to plan. I'm just being.
00:18:28 Emily
Sure. And just and just go with it pick.
00:18:30 Camilla
Yeah, just go with it. Absolutely. Yeah. Because actually, ultimately, no matter how big the team that you work with, whether it's one-on-one, whether it's working with one person and their team around them, people will always look to the EA to be the kind of grounding force.
00:18:30 Emily
Up dust yourself.
00:18:31 Emily
And off we go again.
00:18:46 Camilla
I saw the person flapping around.
00:18:48 Camilla
A sort of.
00:18:49 Camilla
You know, hysterical nightmare about everything. I think that actually unsettles A-Team and it unsettles the dynamics.
00:18:54 Emily
No. Well it flows.
00:18:55 Emily
Doesn't it? I mean, it absolutely does. If you could just say no, we can move on. We can sort this then. That's super. So two more questions, Camilla, because we like to keep these podcasts short, sweet and interesting.
00:18:59 Camilla
Yeah, we've got this. Yeah.
00:19:08 Emily
To our listeners, this is a really big question actually. And actually, you know, I've been in secretarial equipment for, Oh my goodness, I mean, nearly 30 years now. And and to me, fundamentally the roles have changed, but.
00:19:20 Emily
In terms of what we do, et cetera, and how much?
00:19:24 Emily
The people rely on their assistance, but fundamentally people still need assistance. You know that's never going to change. But how different do you think the sort of the eapa will? Will will look like in sort of 10 years time?
00:19:38 Camilla
It's a really interesting question. I think. I think there's a generation.
00:19:43 Camilla
I was.
00:19:44 Camilla
Going to say men, but let's say people who.
00:19:48 Camilla
Who I think will, you know, be coming out of the workforce where they've been used to having a very traditional eapa who does everything for them from booking their haircuts to their expenses to and I and I have seen in the last five years since COVID actually a real shift in in the way that principals are able to do some of that more themselves.
00:19:56
Mm.
00:20:09 Camilla
And I I know some people are sort of worried. Oh, what if they do their own expenses on their phone themselves in an app? What? Where does that leave my role? I actually think it it leaves the EA role as quite an exciting role.
00:20:22 Camilla
To open up much more project management, much more sort of.
00:20:27 Camilla
To add value in other areas, yeah, he much in scope for being able to be directly involved because people will have that mental brain space to be able to, you know, think, oh actually I can connect these dots and I think that's something that a good EA does is connect dots constantly.
00:20:43
It.
00:20:45 Emily
And again PQ for that, I mean it's it's it's a, it's a question we're asking everybody in, in our links presents and it's.
00:20:52 Emily
You know, I've had for years. Oh, we won't need EAS. No, we don't. Π mean, I just I no, I just strongly don't agree at all. I think behind every really successful executive is a phenomenal PAEA and the role the role will change and evolve and AI will play some things like we've just said, expenses and apps, etcetera, but.
00:21:08 Camilla
Yeah.
00:21:10 Emily
Fundamentally, we need that.
00:21:12 Camilla
Yeah, next to us, absolutely. And I think you know, hybrid working only only adds to that. You know, everyone always said, oh, you could never be an EA work from home. And I think we've just all proved absolutely.
00:21:16
Yeah.
00:21:23 Emily
Well, we've proved everybody. Oh, haven't.
00:21:25 Emily
Back. Yeah. Definitely. So, Camilla, when you're not being one of London's top fabulous assistants, and when you're not looking after your two gorgeous.
00:21:34 Emily
Children, what do you what do you do for downtime? What do you enjoy?
00:21:39 Camilla
It's an interesting question.
00:21:41 Emily
Do you think King? When have I got time?
00:21:42 Camilla
Five years ago, when do we have that time I used to? I used to do lots of exercise and that's when I was in EA, you know, before I had the kids, I that was always my outlet and actually now it's just simple things in life. It's I enjoy going for walks. We've moved out of London and we're now sort of on the in the summer.
00:22:00 Camilla
So I try and just.
00:22:02 Camilla
Enjoy being, you know, a new chapter of life where I can.
00:22:06 Emily
And being present exactly all about being present, isn't it at the moment of super?
00:22:08 Camilla
Exactly. Absolutely, yeah.
00:22:12 Emily
Camilla, thank you so much. Your career today is so inspiring, and you've you're you're a real model of success in terms of how where you've got to. So I know that our listeners are going to love this.
00:22:13 Camilla
Thank you.
00:22:23 Camilla
Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Emily. Lovely to be here today. Thanks. Take care.
00:22:23 Emily
To.
00:22:28
Bye.
00:22:28 Camilla
Bye.
